In case you missed it, the other week I kicked off Celebrating Setbacks with an interview with Joel Hoekstra, who spoke courageously and openly about his journey leaving tech. Specifically, we discussed all the complex feelings behind rising the ranks at Uber, Square, and Meta, leading a team, getting laid off two times, and ultimately using these experiences as a catalyst to jump into a new, more purposeful career in coaching.
As someone who’s similarly experienced the highs and lows of tech, Joel’s story resonated with me a lot. Today, I’m highlighting all the lessons I learned from sharing our conversation publicly.
#1: While not everyone has dealt with layoffs, everyone can relate to career confusion.
I originally posted this article to support people who had experienced layoffs, since I know how isolating that situation can feel. What I didn’t expect that was all sorts of folks — in fact, most of whom were not dealing with job loss — would be able to connect with Joel’s story so much. I was reminded that nearly everyone has faced, or is facing, some sort of career dilemma: whether feeling stuck in a role, being under-appreciated at work, or feeling unhappy in an industry but not knowing how to switch. No one is 100% confident with their career, all the time. We just don’t talk about it publicly.
#2: Even for the most niche jobs, there are frameworks you can follow.
Coaching has less of a standard path than a field like law or medicine, for example. But what struck me about Joel’s journey — as individual as it may seem — is that he used the playbook of a former colleague. Like her, he joined a coaching certification program, and began to post very honest, vulnerable messages to get his work across. In fact, his posts inspired me to post very openly on LinkedIn, too.
There are always people who’ve walked at least some part of our path before — no matter how specific it may seem.
#3: Our feelings about our career are highly contextual.
When I asked Joel if he was nervous about being laid off again after losing his job in 2020, I was surprised to hear he wasn’t. At that time, he reminded me, companies in tech were still hiring aggressively, even during the pandemic. It reminded me of the optimism I felt during my own entry into tech, a few years prior, when it seemed like my inbox was flooded with recruiters.
Today, I would say people feel very differently about job security and their futures. It’s been years of post-pandemic layoffs, and many people feel hopeless in this “mini 2008” economy, as it’s been called.
In other words: if you feel discouraged, it’s not just you — there are serious market forces right now making work hard. On the flipside, it’s humbling for me to remember that even the “good times” in my career can be owed in part to a good market.
#4: Processing time sucks, but it’s important.
After a big event like job loss, it can feel so wrong to take time to figure out next steps, instead of immediately “panic-anxiety applying,” as Joel put it (I love that phrase!). But it’s hard to zoom out and get clear on what we want if we’re always stuck in the same day to day routines. Now, we all have different financial resources, but I did appreciate the point that if it is possible to take some time off — to do so. Because every single client Joel coached said they wished they had more time between gigs.
#5: Even if we’re on the “right path,” self-doubt never goes away.
I really dislike stories when people are courageous enough to share their challenges — and then distance themselves from struggle, saying it’s all in the past. It was so refreshing that Joel admitted he still deals with the fear of what other people may think, despite doing something he finds very meaningful. A few folks in particular commented on how much that honesty resonated with them.
I also felt like I wanted to “throw all my devices in the trash can,” publishing my first post. But seeing Joel’s post gave me a bit more courage to just do it.
Thank you so much for reading. What reflections did you take away from this discussion? Comment below, and stay tuned for a new interview next time!
Yay! So great to see you launch your own site. This was a fantastic interview on a topic that affects everyone at some point. As someone currently taking time off, I am a big proponent.